[Biodiesel In Utah] Gauging Real Interest of WVO need/use in SLCounty

Tue Nov 14 14:31:03 EST 2006

That's funny....."to deal w/ the problems the biodieseler's have been causing them". Hate to say it but they dug their own grave there....
ok, back to the topic at hand.

If they aren't interested (if the lawyer put's an axe into the deal), let's look at some of the other renderer's. Kuhni's has been very Biodiesel friendly and so has Bonneville.  If Renegade isn't interested in playing, then it'd definately be worth looking to the other renderer's in town.

I don't think it'd solve all of their "biodiesel problems", as there's folks out there that are going to go for the oil regardless of whether they can buy it or not. It's a principle thing to them.

That said, I think it'd be a step in the right direction.  There's people in North Carolina that collect oil and sell it to Biodieseler's all the time.  Apparently, once it's collected and filtered, it becomes a "raw" product instead of a "waste" product and the permitting to transport it goes away.

My ideal oil from them would be 5% or lower FFA content with a water content of less than 2% and have it filtered down to at least 400 microns. If I'm going to pay for oil, it'd have to be "processed" per above, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Still a very doable proposition. Land's not cheap though & you'd need to be able to do a secondary containment around the tank if you procured all the oil.

Interesting....
-Graydon

Andre Shoumatoff <andre at shoumatoffmedia.com> wrote:     As I understand it, once the transportation fee has been  paid once and if the grease was collected by a renderer, then it does not have  to be paid again (and the permit is not required)..   I would be  surprized if everyone in the chain needed to have the permit, even the end  users...  I will have to double check with the health  department, but this is what I understood from our meeting last winter when the  Health Dept rep was there..   Also there are some city, fire code, and  other issues and personally it has me a little concerned as to real world  pheasability of homebrewing in homes and home garages & such...   

 Also the cost is a little steep ( I think if it was $.50 a  gallon then it would be more attractive to us) but about $.85 is not too out of  line.  Again this number could go up or down, they will have to look at  their costs..   I think it would be something like "cost" for them, so  they won't lose money but won't make any and hopefully this could create a  solution to problems they are saying they have been having with biodieselers and  a solution for us as well...    I will have to find out more  about the specifics but I gave them a basic outline of we would need and what  would be preferred.  They said they can selectively choose their oil  supplies and provide lower titration once we went through exactly how it  works.  We will need to work out specifics, water and other  contaminents will be removed..  They have a close looped system where they  basically put in the oil and on the other end it comes out, so there are no  "options" so basically we will get what the
 pig farmers & such  get...   Also it was good to get a little more insight into their  business, they see hundreds of thousands of gallons sometimes at a time, mostly  to Texas & such...  Big business...

 So again this is proposed..  Number one thing for them  is liability, so if their lawyers axe the idea, then there goes the  concept...  Also they are not setup for retail so this is  why we will need to provide a location..  I have asked "The Oracle" (Mark  from MJ Auto, the Benz mechanic off Redwood road who is very biodieseler  friendly) and he is considering it.  Other than that I have no idea where  else we could do it.  Then there is the cost of the tank and liability  insurance so there are some real logistical issues..    

 Andre

---------------------------------

 From:  list-bounces at utahbiodiesel.org [mailto:list-bounces at utahbiodiesel.org] On  Behalf Of Graydon Blair
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:56  AM
To: Biodiesel in Utah
Subject: Re: [Biodiesel In Utah]  Gauging Real Interest of WVO need/use in SLCounty

How would this deal with the issue of transporting the grease (the  REAL reason it's illegal to collect in SL County?)

The permit is to  transport, not to collect the grease. If there was a tank full of WVO put  somewhere, what are their plans for dispensing it and getting around the "must  be permitted to transport" the grease?

Technically, if it's been rendered  or filtered, then we could get around it that way, as the county doesn't  consider it a "waste" product once it's been "industrialized".

What would  the fee's be to participate in something like this?

Andre  Shoumatoff <andre at utahbiodiesel.org> wrote:           I wanted to report that I have been having    discussions with Renegade Oil including an excellent meeting we had last    week up here in Heber City including a tour of our brewing facility, to come    up with a possible solution to the "grease problem" in Salt Lake County.     

   The proposed partnership    would be a tank (1000 gallons most likely) of WVO placed somewhere in Salt Lake    City (I am currently exploring options - I do have some possibles    already).  The oil would be available from a wide diameter spiget to    anyone interested.  It would be fully rendered, no water, would    be high quality that will titrate low, and be filtered to at least 1/4" as    part of the agreement.  Currently estimated cost would be about ~$.85 a    gallon to biodieselers (keep in mind they get are currently getting $1.28 on    the market - so this would be a compromise for    them).

   At this point, I am trying to gauge how much real    world interest there would be to using this grease, and whether it is worth    the expense of insurance, cost of the tank, etc, that hte biodiesel coop will    need to take on.

   How much are people who are brewing willing to    use and would you be willing to pay $.85 a gallon or so to buy clean and legal    oil?  Most of you probably know, the big    deal is that collecting WVO in Salt Lake County is currently    illegal...   Besides that, it takes reasonable infrastructure IMO to    collect grease and do it well, and it seems that biodieselers are giving    biodiesel a bad name because many are giving up after a few months, walking    away from verbal agreements, not picking up barrels when needed, making    messes, etc.  As Renegade put it, we are    "their best salesman."

   If you can please post up in response, I am    curious to hear if you guy think. 

   Hurtles for us are:
   - Cost of tank, setup, etc.
   - Cost of insurance (re legal for    Renegade).
   - Cost of oil.
   - Finding a location for the oil that someone can    man.

   Hurdles for them:
   - Making sure they can deliver.
   - Legal (this is probably the biggest deal    breaker - they have legitimate legal concerns about it that would need to be    addressed).

   Best, Andre

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